edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 06:32 PM
Maybe not in the New Testament, but certainly in the Old.
Nope, not in the Old Testament either. There is a recounting of events which say what happened, but there is no commandment from God to "urge the believers to battle. If there are among you 20 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 200...... And if there are among you 100 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 1000 of those who have disbelieved...(qur'an 8:65) to this day.
The New Testament Abrogates the Old Testament anyway, so it's not relevant to Christians.
Nope, not in the Old Testament either. There is a recounting of events which say what happened, but there is no commandment from God to "urge the believers to battle. If there are among you 20 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 200...... And if there are among you 100 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 1000 of those who have disbelieved...(qur'an 8:65) to this day.
The New Testament Abrogates the Old Testament anyway, so it's not relevant to Christians.
Full of Win
Mar 18, 10:37 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
What we need need to do is to use our rights to their maximum amount. If you are on the so-called unlimited plan, download all that you can until you reach 4.5 GB per month (as shown by myAtt.app). Also, download during the day if possible, to cost them even more for peak usage. Leaving data on the table every month is for suckers.
What we need need to do is to use our rights to their maximum amount. If you are on the so-called unlimited plan, download all that you can until you reach 4.5 GB per month (as shown by myAtt.app). Also, download during the day if possible, to cost them even more for peak usage. Leaving data on the table every month is for suckers.
r0k
Apr 14, 03:09 PM
The OP was not banned. Just check the 1st post of this thread to see the OP is still around.
Doh! That's what I get for repeating something I read in a forum without checking it out for myself. Sure enough, clicking on the OP user name reveals they posted as recently as yesterday. :o Oops!
Edit (updated info): I got this thread mixed up with the "mac vs pc spec for spec thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=660203)". It was the OP in that thread that was banned. Double Oops!
Your comment about "suffering with 7 all day" is surprising to me. I don't know if I've seen Windows 7 experience a full OS crash. And I've been toying with Win 7 since it was in beta.
Sure, it ain't perfect, but I find Win 7 pretty darn efficient overall. I haven't encountered any OS related issues with 7 yet. Application quirks, sure, but not really any OS problems.
I'd say OS X and Win 7 are much more comparable than Vista or XP.
Again, it comes down mostly to what you need a computer to do.
Cheers, all.
Actually I should mention that it's not simply 7 I'm suffering with. It's the crap our IT people do to 7 that I'm suffering with. I can't watch any Youtube video without freezes and pauses and the applications they make us use should be outlawed as cruel and unusual punishment.
One of the biggest annoyances I brought on myself by dragging my start button to the top of the screen so it would look more "Mac like". I wound up fighting with it day in day out as it overlaid window controls and refused to get out of the way. Once I dragged it back where "it belongs", my life got a lot easier.
Granted I can move my dock around in OS X at least the OS X menu bar stays where it belongs and I never get into conflicts where some window control I need is hiding off the edge of the screen or behind the menu bar. OTOH, the dock gets in my way any time I'm near the bottom of the window I'm using. I should really do something about it.
Doh! That's what I get for repeating something I read in a forum without checking it out for myself. Sure enough, clicking on the OP user name reveals they posted as recently as yesterday. :o Oops!
Edit (updated info): I got this thread mixed up with the "mac vs pc spec for spec thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=660203)". It was the OP in that thread that was banned. Double Oops!
Your comment about "suffering with 7 all day" is surprising to me. I don't know if I've seen Windows 7 experience a full OS crash. And I've been toying with Win 7 since it was in beta.
Sure, it ain't perfect, but I find Win 7 pretty darn efficient overall. I haven't encountered any OS related issues with 7 yet. Application quirks, sure, but not really any OS problems.
I'd say OS X and Win 7 are much more comparable than Vista or XP.
Again, it comes down mostly to what you need a computer to do.
Cheers, all.
Actually I should mention that it's not simply 7 I'm suffering with. It's the crap our IT people do to 7 that I'm suffering with. I can't watch any Youtube video without freezes and pauses and the applications they make us use should be outlawed as cruel and unusual punishment.
One of the biggest annoyances I brought on myself by dragging my start button to the top of the screen so it would look more "Mac like". I wound up fighting with it day in day out as it overlaid window controls and refused to get out of the way. Once I dragged it back where "it belongs", my life got a lot easier.
Granted I can move my dock around in OS X at least the OS X menu bar stays where it belongs and I never get into conflicts where some window control I need is hiding off the edge of the screen or behind the menu bar. OTOH, the dock gets in my way any time I'm near the bottom of the window I'm using. I should really do something about it.
AidenShaw
Jul 13, 09:06 AM
Nope, it doesn't. Besides, I already told you in another thread that Intel agrees with my intrepetation on this matter. The see dual-dual systems as 2-way systems, whereas according to you, they are 4-way systems. Are you saying that Intel does not know what they are doing?
Intel and AMD push hard to make sure that a dual-core processor is *licensed* as a single CPU. This is because there are a lot of big software packages that are priced according to the number of processors, often much more expensive for a 4-way than a 2-way.
The CPU makers wouldn't sell as many multi-core chips if the systems were much more expensive (in TCO) than single-core chips. Therefore they pretend that a "processor" is what can be plugged into a socket. The software sees that there are "physical processors" (a package with pins) and "logical processors" (the CPU that we've been familiar with for decades, which requires SMP hardware capabilities to be useful with 2 or more).
They say that software licensing should consider the *physical* processor count for licensing terms. (For example, XP Home will run SMP on a dual-core, but not on a dual-socket. XP Pro will run 4-way SMP on a dual-socket quad-core, but not on a quad-socket quad-core. Microsoft licensing looks at the number of physical processors, while of course the software runs according to the number of logical processors.)
So, Intel/AMD/MS have an agenda that requires them to distort the meaning of the word "processor". They have to warp the word "processor" to justify the licensing stance.
___________________________________
And, if you're so hung up on the hardware distinctions, consider:
1963 Volkswagen Beetle
1952 Vw Beetle Front View
1970 VW Beetle Convertible for
1970 Volkswagen Beetle
1967 Vw Beetle Wheelie
vw-eetle-line.jpg)
VW Beetle comeback
VW Beetle
vw beetle
Volkswagen Beetle
All About VW Beetle
VW Beetle Spoilers
We have a nice white VW Beetle
VW Beetle Ragster
According to VW insiders the
Intel and AMD push hard to make sure that a dual-core processor is *licensed* as a single CPU. This is because there are a lot of big software packages that are priced according to the number of processors, often much more expensive for a 4-way than a 2-way.
The CPU makers wouldn't sell as many multi-core chips if the systems were much more expensive (in TCO) than single-core chips. Therefore they pretend that a "processor" is what can be plugged into a socket. The software sees that there are "physical processors" (a package with pins) and "logical processors" (the CPU that we've been familiar with for decades, which requires SMP hardware capabilities to be useful with 2 or more).
They say that software licensing should consider the *physical* processor count for licensing terms. (For example, XP Home will run SMP on a dual-core, but not on a dual-socket. XP Pro will run 4-way SMP on a dual-socket quad-core, but not on a quad-socket quad-core. Microsoft licensing looks at the number of physical processors, while of course the software runs according to the number of logical processors.)
So, Intel/AMD/MS have an agenda that requires them to distort the meaning of the word "processor". They have to warp the word "processor" to justify the licensing stance.
___________________________________
And, if you're so hung up on the hardware distinctions, consider:
braddouglass
Apr 10, 04:25 PM
If you are happy with windows stick with it. if you don't "have" to switch because you need a specifitc application, just don't do it. It's not "THAT MUCH" better as everyone wants to make you believe. I still like to use my macbook though ;)
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
So.. You can customize a mac pro just as much as any PC. There are plenty of games for mac, the good ones anyways. and they run them beautifully if your machine is equipped for it. and the gfx cards are good you just have to get a mac with a good gfx card. you cant buy a low end mac and expect it to run everything at HQ settings, nor a windows. There is tons of pro software but it is a little spendy, but what software isn't?
You might not like the lack of customization, the need to drag and drop to move files (most cases), windows resizing, the dock, finder in general, graphics performance, lack of games, lack of professional software other than audio/video etc... the list goes on...
So.. You can customize a mac pro just as much as any PC. There are plenty of games for mac, the good ones anyways. and they run them beautifully if your machine is equipped for it. and the gfx cards are good you just have to get a mac with a good gfx card. you cant buy a low end mac and expect it to run everything at HQ settings, nor a windows. There is tons of pro software but it is a little spendy, but what software isn't?
Multimedia
Oct 2, 06:07 PM
Since the 2.33GHz Clovertown processors are priced the same as the 3GHz Woodcrests - $851, I think it's fair to say the current 3GHz Quad Core Mac Pro costs about $825 per core while the 8-core 2.33GHz Dual Clovertown Mac Pros will cost only about $412.50 per core. That looks like real progress to me. On the GHz front, the current one running @ 12GHz is about $275 per GHz of power while the 8-core running @ 18.64GHz is about $177 per GHz of power. That looks like real progress as well. :)
maclaptop
May 2, 02:13 PM
so much for the no malware on macs myth :D
funny how the apple fanboys are getting all defensive :rolleyes:
Bravo, this is the funniest post ever.
I bet there's a lot of fan bois with soiled underwear.
Could it be true? Their perfect computers now quite vulnerable.
Ya gotta love it...the slap of reality :) :) :)
funny how the apple fanboys are getting all defensive :rolleyes:
Bravo, this is the funniest post ever.
I bet there's a lot of fan bois with soiled underwear.
Could it be true? Their perfect computers now quite vulnerable.
Ya gotta love it...the slap of reality :) :) :)
drsmithy
Sep 26, 09:17 PM
I snipped nothing.
The specific examples I refer to are putting applications in RAM, wherever that ram might be (ramdisc of main memory, ram based solid state drive on the drive bus, or memory drive on the graphics bus). Some applications greatly benefit from residing in RAM, such as compilers or image manipulators. Photoshop uses alot of swap space so you would need large ramdrives to benefit. I mainly am an advocate of ramdrives and see them underused in applications that would clearly benefit. Apple could gain some marketing points by simply offering such an option then bragging about it on TV of how a Mac is 20x as fast as a (stock) Dell :)
Rocketman
On modern platforms, the OS will "cache" (in reality it's a bit more complicated, but the effect is the same) the executable(s) and library(/ies) necessary for an application to execute at runtime and keep them in RAM unless the system is memory starved. As such, the only thing a RAM drive should speed up on a modern system is initial program load times.
RAM drives are (outside of corner cases like, say, for something like DB rollback logs) a crutch for systems with either insufficient real RAM (in which you should get more and let every aspect of the system benefit) or broken VM systems (in which case you should upgrade your OS and let every application benefit). Many of the methods you might have used to make your Mac II running System 7 faster don't really apply to modern OSes - RAM drives are one of them.
The specific examples I refer to are putting applications in RAM, wherever that ram might be (ramdisc of main memory, ram based solid state drive on the drive bus, or memory drive on the graphics bus). Some applications greatly benefit from residing in RAM, such as compilers or image manipulators. Photoshop uses alot of swap space so you would need large ramdrives to benefit. I mainly am an advocate of ramdrives and see them underused in applications that would clearly benefit. Apple could gain some marketing points by simply offering such an option then bragging about it on TV of how a Mac is 20x as fast as a (stock) Dell :)
Rocketman
On modern platforms, the OS will "cache" (in reality it's a bit more complicated, but the effect is the same) the executable(s) and library(/ies) necessary for an application to execute at runtime and keep them in RAM unless the system is memory starved. As such, the only thing a RAM drive should speed up on a modern system is initial program load times.
RAM drives are (outside of corner cases like, say, for something like DB rollback logs) a crutch for systems with either insufficient real RAM (in which you should get more and let every aspect of the system benefit) or broken VM systems (in which case you should upgrade your OS and let every application benefit). Many of the methods you might have used to make your Mac II running System 7 faster don't really apply to modern OSes - RAM drives are one of them.
SPUY767
Jul 12, 08:58 AM
I doubt that Apple are able to charge the "normal" Mac premium after the intel transition, since it is much simpler to compare Macs with another PCs. Almost like Apple for Apple. ;)
Name another consumer workstation with a XEON Processor in it. For XEON based machines, the Apple's will be a deal, much like the XServes were the cheapest 1u you could get with the power.
Name another consumer workstation with a XEON Processor in it. For XEON based machines, the Apple's will be a deal, much like the XServes were the cheapest 1u you could get with the power.
Mister Snitch
Apr 9, 11:46 AM
I am firmly against poaching executives. They should always be deep-fried.
sjo
Aug 29, 12:48 PM
As a Norwegian I can say that Apple has way more credibility than Greenpeace over here. We have seen what they are all about. Greenpeace is a bunch of spoiled city kids that has no idea what nature is.
Yeah, cause you just HAVE to hunt whales and eat whalemeat in Norway in order to survive, such a poor country with poor people. How dare Greenpeace oppose your ancient way of life?
Yeah, cause you just HAVE to hunt whales and eat whalemeat in Norway in order to survive, such a poor country with poor people. How dare Greenpeace oppose your ancient way of life?
mahonmeister
Sep 20, 01:06 AM
I am looking forward to this device but it seems I need a new TV.:)
I really hope they add more buttons to the remote. There needs to be a better balance between simplicity & elegance vs functionality & practicality.
I really hope they add more buttons to the remote. There needs to be a better balance between simplicity & elegance vs functionality & practicality.
gorgeousninja
Apr 13, 07:53 AM
So this is basically a jazzed up Final Cut Express and the pros have been shown the door. Why am I not shocked about this. :mad:
Someday I'll tell my kids that Apple was the company for pros to which they will laugh in disbelief; kind of how I do now when old people tell me that American cars were once high quality.
don't have kids... ever ...
Someday I'll tell my kids that Apple was the company for pros to which they will laugh in disbelief; kind of how I do now when old people tell me that American cars were once high quality.
don't have kids... ever ...
powderblue17
Apr 15, 11:51 AM
Of course nobody cares about all the straight kids out there that are bullied or at least the media doesn't. Even if they're being called gay because they're not as masculine as society expects but if they're not actually gay then forget it. Those people might as well just kill themselves. At least that's what I've seen from experience.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 27, 07:09 AM
You have completely missed the point.
That doesn't surprise me. Please tell me exactly what point I missed.
That doesn't surprise me. Please tell me exactly what point I missed.
Gelfin
Mar 24, 11:59 PM
Subtract the individuals affiliated with gangs and the mentally unstable and we're staring at a long list of homosexuals murdered by "mainstream" individuals, many of whom attended church on a regular basis and were in fact catholic. That their religious affiliations are not immediately telegraphed is not evidence of absence, but rather of the fact that 76% of the population self-identifies as Christian.
To stretch my own analogy, it also ignores that the men who put on white hoods and terrorized black people were not "mainstream" white people either, but they were nevertheless acting on the attitudes held by "mainstream" white people. They were radical, but saw themselves as the ones with the strength of will to enforce the true will of the "mainstream." It's all very well to believe that the darkies should keep their place, but somebody's got to do the work of keeping them there when they step out of line.
However, I will return to what I touched on before: the Catholic Church (and Christian churches generally in the United States) currently have no need for terrorist thugs. They have great political influence and have convinced a significant plurality (seemingly no longer a majority, I am gratified to point out) that they are entitled to subjugate others bloodlessly and anonymously through the democratic process.
At least this is so until the courts clearly state once and for all that this is incompatible with our law and our society. Incidentally, that's also when the thugs will really come out, and you watch how many of them claim to be doing the Lord's work.
To stretch my own analogy, it also ignores that the men who put on white hoods and terrorized black people were not "mainstream" white people either, but they were nevertheless acting on the attitudes held by "mainstream" white people. They were radical, but saw themselves as the ones with the strength of will to enforce the true will of the "mainstream." It's all very well to believe that the darkies should keep their place, but somebody's got to do the work of keeping them there when they step out of line.
However, I will return to what I touched on before: the Catholic Church (and Christian churches generally in the United States) currently have no need for terrorist thugs. They have great political influence and have convinced a significant plurality (seemingly no longer a majority, I am gratified to point out) that they are entitled to subjugate others bloodlessly and anonymously through the democratic process.
At least this is so until the courts clearly state once and for all that this is incompatible with our law and our society. Incidentally, that's also when the thugs will really come out, and you watch how many of them claim to be doing the Lord's work.
dgree03
Apr 28, 09:09 AM
Kudos for looking for something (seriously) -- I'd argue that it's a bit limited in scope, though:
-Limited to America
-Limited to adults
-Calculating by household, with strictly boolean "yes or no" (not counting multiples)
For example, in my house, we have 4 laptops and 1 desktop machine, but for this survey, it would only be counted as "yes" for both. Actually, it wouldn't be counted at all, since we're in England ;-)
True it is limited to to americas, but I would argue(without any real evidence) that americans in general have more disposable income to afford laptops(which are generally more expensive than desktops.) So i would guess the market for desktop is EVEN BIGGER outside the US.
Limited to adult is true.
Yes/no answer is true also, but the same can be said about households with 4 desktops and 1 laptop ;).
-Limited to America
-Limited to adults
-Calculating by household, with strictly boolean "yes or no" (not counting multiples)
For example, in my house, we have 4 laptops and 1 desktop machine, but for this survey, it would only be counted as "yes" for both. Actually, it wouldn't be counted at all, since we're in England ;-)
True it is limited to to americas, but I would argue(without any real evidence) that americans in general have more disposable income to afford laptops(which are generally more expensive than desktops.) So i would guess the market for desktop is EVEN BIGGER outside the US.
Limited to adult is true.
Yes/no answer is true also, but the same can be said about households with 4 desktops and 1 laptop ;).
puuukeey
Sep 12, 04:22 PM
I just hope it gets hacked so 3rd parties can add functionality to it. (unlike front row)
video chat
screen savers
3rd party applications
RSS
3rd party streaming media formats
keyboard and mouse.
larger remotes.
video chat
screen savers
3rd party applications
RSS
3rd party streaming media formats
keyboard and mouse.
larger remotes.
spencers
Oct 7, 11:01 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, a cupcake is going to take down iPhone?
awmazz
Mar 12, 04:42 AM
Nuclear experts are speculating that the explosion was caused by hydrogen gas released from water that's come into contact with the overheating fuel rods.
BBC live update (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698)
Thanks Olly, I was wondering how the hydrogen could explode. Edited.
They're saying the pressure/exploding hydrogen blew/collapsed the ceiling on the reactor. So that indicates the now destroyed building is where the overeating reactor core is. But don't worry, it's safe. There's not enough information to assume the situation is actually bad... :cool:
BBC live update (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698)
Thanks Olly, I was wondering how the hydrogen could explode. Edited.
They're saying the pressure/exploding hydrogen blew/collapsed the ceiling on the reactor. So that indicates the now destroyed building is where the overeating reactor core is. But don't worry, it's safe. There's not enough information to assume the situation is actually bad... :cool:
lilcosco08
Apr 8, 11:33 PM
WHAT?! the best thing about the iphone IS TOUCH!!!! NO MORE BUTTONS!!!
Touch is generally terrible for gaming
Touch is generally terrible for gaming
gusapple
Apr 13, 12:28 PM
Well it was rumoured for some time and we all waited with baited breath but was Apple seriously going to end the pro app that started them off to stardom? Sadly yes they have. What genius decides to make a pro app accessible to the masses? We who use FCP have to make money from our business, so we need a little bit of smoke and mirrors to make our business needed, otherwise our clients will just get a 16 year old in off the street, download FCP (sorry imovie Pro or whatever they have decided to call it) and there you go we are out of work!
I can see the business sense for Apple but they have now taken it all away from us who stayed by them for all these years.. Thanks Apple for the kick in the teeth. I am a ''Pro'' app user and have been for well over a decade and will be sad to move over to a new system but alas nothing lasts for ever.
RIP FCP
Born 2000 died 2011
I think that this is counter-intuitive. By a long shot. Why would Apple leave their customer base? They still are including all of their "smoke and mirrors" but with a dumbed down option. All that I can see from it is that file management is FINALLY going to be better than a manual system. And anyways, Apple updated the UI from something that was popular in 2000 to something that looks better for today. Plus, there are lots of people who want to start using Pro apps but don't know how. I think that it is awesome that Apple is creating interest in an industry that will grow rapidly in the next few years.
I can see the business sense for Apple but they have now taken it all away from us who stayed by them for all these years.. Thanks Apple for the kick in the teeth. I am a ''Pro'' app user and have been for well over a decade and will be sad to move over to a new system but alas nothing lasts for ever.
RIP FCP
Born 2000 died 2011
I think that this is counter-intuitive. By a long shot. Why would Apple leave their customer base? They still are including all of their "smoke and mirrors" but with a dumbed down option. All that I can see from it is that file management is FINALLY going to be better than a manual system. And anyways, Apple updated the UI from something that was popular in 2000 to something that looks better for today. Plus, there are lots of people who want to start using Pro apps but don't know how. I think that it is awesome that Apple is creating interest in an industry that will grow rapidly in the next few years.
takao
Mar 15, 04:16 AM
Here is the article to which you referred. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12740843
It fails to mention that the statistic noted, "8,217 microsieverts an hour" was measured at the front door of the damaged power plant. Link (http://www.naeil.com/news/eboard_view.asp?location=1&mn_id=3149) As was said in the article I quoted above, radiation levels decrease drastically with distance.
true but still it's way more than is acceptable for nuclear station personal.. or otherwise they wouldn't have evacuated wouldn't they ? ;)
as you say this 8.000 microSievert were recorded at the gate. Did you hear how much the maximum value was they recorded on site around the hot points ? (don't know wether that was reactor 2 or the fire involving spent fuel in reactor 4) they actually mentioned it in one of the press conferences last night:
100 mSv ....that is 100.000 microSievert or 41,5 the average yearly dosis or _twice they yearly legal limit for nuclear powerplant workers_
i don't need a reporter telling me about Sievert values. i measured them myself while i wearing a thick rubber suit.
It fails to mention that the statistic noted, "8,217 microsieverts an hour" was measured at the front door of the damaged power plant. Link (http://www.naeil.com/news/eboard_view.asp?location=1&mn_id=3149) As was said in the article I quoted above, radiation levels decrease drastically with distance.
true but still it's way more than is acceptable for nuclear station personal.. or otherwise they wouldn't have evacuated wouldn't they ? ;)
as you say this 8.000 microSievert were recorded at the gate. Did you hear how much the maximum value was they recorded on site around the hot points ? (don't know wether that was reactor 2 or the fire involving spent fuel in reactor 4) they actually mentioned it in one of the press conferences last night:
100 mSv ....that is 100.000 microSievert or 41,5 the average yearly dosis or _twice they yearly legal limit for nuclear powerplant workers_
i don't need a reporter telling me about Sievert values. i measured them myself while i wearing a thick rubber suit.
firestarter
Apr 23, 05:49 PM
You're quite right, and I agree that people are free to believe whatever they want. However, if they just believe something because "it's always been that way" or some other arbitrary reason then I don't have to respect them or take their beliefs seriously.
I've found the response of some of the devout atheist posters in this thread very interesting, some of the others are of the "God doesn't exist, meh" camp, who I just ignore.
Someone who has never been challenged in their atheist 'beliefs' (or more accurately, lack of belief) would be unlikely to engage in argument anyway. Being an atheist here in the UK isn't a particularly controversial position, and the topic of religion rarely comes up in polite conversation. In an ideal world, a 'live and let live' attitude would exist between theists and atheists, and each would just get on with their lives.
However, this isn't an ideal world - and there does appear to be a perceptible shift in the stridency of religious thought both in the East and West. Here in the UK, believers have been seen as an interesting electoral demographic, and targeted with promises of religious schooling, grants etc. In the US, it seems to be extremely difficult to enter higher political life as an atheist.
It's against this backdrop that atheists themselves have started to become more vocal, critical and radical. What someone else believes holds little interest to me, until that starts to impinge upon my own freedoms. At that point, the gloves come off...
I've found the response of some of the devout atheist posters in this thread very interesting, some of the others are of the "God doesn't exist, meh" camp, who I just ignore.
Someone who has never been challenged in their atheist 'beliefs' (or more accurately, lack of belief) would be unlikely to engage in argument anyway. Being an atheist here in the UK isn't a particularly controversial position, and the topic of religion rarely comes up in polite conversation. In an ideal world, a 'live and let live' attitude would exist between theists and atheists, and each would just get on with their lives.
However, this isn't an ideal world - and there does appear to be a perceptible shift in the stridency of religious thought both in the East and West. Here in the UK, believers have been seen as an interesting electoral demographic, and targeted with promises of religious schooling, grants etc. In the US, it seems to be extremely difficult to enter higher political life as an atheist.
It's against this backdrop that atheists themselves have started to become more vocal, critical and radical. What someone else believes holds little interest to me, until that starts to impinge upon my own freedoms. At that point, the gloves come off...
