Multimedia
Nov 1, 10:17 AM
Clovertons to run hot until 2007 according to:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/01/intel_fwives_core/Oops! This makes me change my mind about buying this Fall:
"HP, and other OEMs, should have Clovertown gear ready on the 14th. Our sources inside HP say the chip is eating between 140 watts and 150 watts..." :eek:
"Intel hopes to deliver less power hungry parts in short order. CEO Paul Otellini has talked about 50W and 80W Clovertown parts set for the early part of 2007 (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/26/intel_quad-core_roadmap/)." :)
Guess I'm gonna have to be a little more patient a little longer in that case. That will be after MacWorld Expo toward the end of January then. Oh well. So much for immediate gratification. ;) Looks like waiting for the 8-core to ship with Leopard will jive with the cooler less power hungry monsters as well.
Thanks for bursting my bubble. :( I can get back to the business of another longer term wait similar to the wait for Santa Rosa or the mobile C2D MBP that's shipping now after 10 months of mobile CDs. At least it won't be that much longer. :cool: Looks like Clovertown Rev. B will be worth waiting for as well.
My apologies to all who were negatively infected by my extreeme enthusiasm for the first Clovertown release before I understood this new information. I can wait. I know some of you can't.
And I also may change my mind again when/if Apple releases a hot version first. Maybe they'll pass on the 150 watt models. Or perhaps they have real good cooling figured out. But I think I'd rather be ecological and buy what consumes less power anyway - especially in light of only another 2-3 months time.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/01/intel_fwives_core/Oops! This makes me change my mind about buying this Fall:
"HP, and other OEMs, should have Clovertown gear ready on the 14th. Our sources inside HP say the chip is eating between 140 watts and 150 watts..." :eek:
"Intel hopes to deliver less power hungry parts in short order. CEO Paul Otellini has talked about 50W and 80W Clovertown parts set for the early part of 2007 (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/26/intel_quad-core_roadmap/)." :)
Guess I'm gonna have to be a little more patient a little longer in that case. That will be after MacWorld Expo toward the end of January then. Oh well. So much for immediate gratification. ;) Looks like waiting for the 8-core to ship with Leopard will jive with the cooler less power hungry monsters as well.
Thanks for bursting my bubble. :( I can get back to the business of another longer term wait similar to the wait for Santa Rosa or the mobile C2D MBP that's shipping now after 10 months of mobile CDs. At least it won't be that much longer. :cool: Looks like Clovertown Rev. B will be worth waiting for as well.
My apologies to all who were negatively infected by my extreeme enthusiasm for the first Clovertown release before I understood this new information. I can wait. I know some of you can't.
And I also may change my mind again when/if Apple releases a hot version first. Maybe they'll pass on the 150 watt models. Or perhaps they have real good cooling figured out. But I think I'd rather be ecological and buy what consumes less power anyway - especially in light of only another 2-3 months time.
RedTomato
Mar 15, 06:28 PM
Sorry doublepost but different topic now:
Wikileaks: Japan warned over nuclear plants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8384059/Japan-earthquake-Japan-warned-over-nuclear-plants-WikiLeaks-cables-show.html
WikiLeaks cables show Japan was warned more than two years ago by the international nuclear watchdog that its nuclear power plants were not capable of withstanding powerful earthquakes, leaked diplomatic cables reveal.
Why does this not surprise me? Japan nuclear has a long history of coverups and poor operational procedures - including mixing nuclear fuel in a bucket and being surprised when it went critical.
Even the UK here has a long history of blunders and covering up - look at Windscale, later renamed Sellafield in a PR move. Some of the radiation leaks here were only revealed decades later.
Building reactors to a 1 accident in 1000 years standard of protection, as pushed by the industry PR, is just not good enough. Given 100 reactors, that equates to a serious issue every 10 years on average, and we already have far more than 100 reactors globally.
Wikileaks: Japan warned over nuclear plants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8384059/Japan-earthquake-Japan-warned-over-nuclear-plants-WikiLeaks-cables-show.html
WikiLeaks cables show Japan was warned more than two years ago by the international nuclear watchdog that its nuclear power plants were not capable of withstanding powerful earthquakes, leaked diplomatic cables reveal.
Why does this not surprise me? Japan nuclear has a long history of coverups and poor operational procedures - including mixing nuclear fuel in a bucket and being surprised when it went critical.
Even the UK here has a long history of blunders and covering up - look at Windscale, later renamed Sellafield in a PR move. Some of the radiation leaks here were only revealed decades later.
Building reactors to a 1 accident in 1000 years standard of protection, as pushed by the industry PR, is just not good enough. Given 100 reactors, that equates to a serious issue every 10 years on average, and we already have far more than 100 reactors globally.
Drewnrupe
Sep 12, 04:00 PM
Please excuse me if I am missing something totally obvious here as I am a relatively new convert to Apple.
This looks like a nice little solution but I am not sure its anything revoloutionary. I currently have an airport express in the bedroom connected to an eyehome unit that does the same job as far as i can see.
Granted it cannot handle Purchased itunes songs ( which i can stream out of the airport directly though) and I guess therfore wont play itunes movies - but that is an apple restriction on ElGato.
As far as TV goes though, this setup with an EyeTV 200 attached to the computer is effectively the Tivo Killer I keep hearing talk of - I certainly chose this route after discovering that the tivo lifetime licenses were not available any more and not wanting another bill every month.
The apple box also would not work for me (as far as I could see) as I use a regular old TV in the bedroom without component inputs - just rca and s video.
Plus I get the benefit of the airport express extending my wireless network into the bedroom so laptop access is great throughout the house now.
Seems that downloaded movies arent going to be big in this house if i need to replace current hardware with something so similar that wont drive my TV (and who knows if it will pick up eyeTV programs either ) just to watch the purchased movies.
So can someone enlighten me what was so different about the Eyehome and airport express combo that makes this new box so great ? ( I am really open to being convinced - dont usually have a problem talking myself ito new toys)
Current setup Will be even better when this 700 G4 gets replaced by the new 24" imac arriving Friday ....... wasnt supposed to ship until the 18th !!!! Im Stoked
Drew
This looks like a nice little solution but I am not sure its anything revoloutionary. I currently have an airport express in the bedroom connected to an eyehome unit that does the same job as far as i can see.
Granted it cannot handle Purchased itunes songs ( which i can stream out of the airport directly though) and I guess therfore wont play itunes movies - but that is an apple restriction on ElGato.
As far as TV goes though, this setup with an EyeTV 200 attached to the computer is effectively the Tivo Killer I keep hearing talk of - I certainly chose this route after discovering that the tivo lifetime licenses were not available any more and not wanting another bill every month.
The apple box also would not work for me (as far as I could see) as I use a regular old TV in the bedroom without component inputs - just rca and s video.
Plus I get the benefit of the airport express extending my wireless network into the bedroom so laptop access is great throughout the house now.
Seems that downloaded movies arent going to be big in this house if i need to replace current hardware with something so similar that wont drive my TV (and who knows if it will pick up eyeTV programs either ) just to watch the purchased movies.
So can someone enlighten me what was so different about the Eyehome and airport express combo that makes this new box so great ? ( I am really open to being convinced - dont usually have a problem talking myself ito new toys)
Current setup Will be even better when this 700 G4 gets replaced by the new 24" imac arriving Friday ....... wasnt supposed to ship until the 18th !!!! Im Stoked
Drew
spetznatz
Jul 13, 11:24 AM
[The majority of Mac users use Adobe products] Sad but true and I wish Apple would release something to go up against Photoshop.
Well, you could try this...
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12
It's still a bit flaky in beta, and the interface is a Windows / Linux clone, but at least it's Universal Binary!!!:D
Oh, yeah, and it's only $32 if you buy now.
Now would I be stirring up a hornets' nest if I asked if it was too much to hope that the lower-end pro's would have a single Woodcrest and an open socket?
Right, where did I put my tin helmet?....
Well, you could try this...
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12
It's still a bit flaky in beta, and the interface is a Windows / Linux clone, but at least it's Universal Binary!!!:D
Oh, yeah, and it's only $32 if you buy now.
Now would I be stirring up a hornets' nest if I asked if it was too much to hope that the lower-end pro's would have a single Woodcrest and an open socket?
Right, where did I put my tin helmet?....
Rt&Dzine
Mar 14, 02:44 PM
What do you mean *if* we have a meltdown. Are you denying there has been a meltdown at all? I'll wager with you that there is not only just a meltdown, but actually *three* active meltdowns currently in progress right now. Even so, I'm not even sure where your confidence over the 'if' comes from, everything so far that we're seeing indicates that they are struggling to even keep the situation under control let alone stabilize it, so I believe it's more of a certainty than an if. I believe they are failing, if not already failed, and the situation is already out of their control so it's only a matter of time.
Edit - my beilief is based on reading stuff like this (from the BBC) about the hitherto quiet reactor #2. While all the focus has been on the exploding #1 and #3, they've also been pumping seawater into #2 as well. So not only is that yet another wtf? moment, we also have a wtf? squared that the fire engine truck ran out of petrol to keep the pump going so the rods were exposed. So I hope you can understand what I mean about not having confidence that they are even abe to stay on top of the situation let alone control it.
Japanese officials are saying it's highly likely there is a partial meltdown occurring in three reactors.
Edit - my beilief is based on reading stuff like this (from the BBC) about the hitherto quiet reactor #2. While all the focus has been on the exploding #1 and #3, they've also been pumping seawater into #2 as well. So not only is that yet another wtf? moment, we also have a wtf? squared that the fire engine truck ran out of petrol to keep the pump going so the rods were exposed. So I hope you can understand what I mean about not having confidence that they are even abe to stay on top of the situation let alone control it.
Japanese officials are saying it's highly likely there is a partial meltdown occurring in three reactors.
shawnce
Jul 12, 05:30 PM
Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest at equal clock speeds
Merom will underperform a Conroe under equal high loads because of thermal constraints (in unmodified systems).
--edit--
Also forgot to point out that Merom top out with 667 MT/s FSB... so several classes of tasks will be slower on a Merom then equally clocked Conroe.
Merom will underperform a Conroe under equal high loads because of thermal constraints (in unmodified systems).
--edit--
Also forgot to point out that Merom top out with 667 MT/s FSB... so several classes of tasks will be slower on a Merom then equally clocked Conroe.
Bonte
Sep 22, 07:47 AM
Either way, I am still willing to bet for a large family, cable is significantly cheaper (especially when you take into account all the TV watched for "background noise" (such as the food network)).
Here in Europe we don't have that problem so much but i'm going crazy if i have to watch all the dumb advertising on the US networks, you guys pay much more then just the cable cost. Every 5 minutes there's a commercial brake and the endless repeating of the facts after it. I am willing to pay not to have these annoyances.
Here in Europe we don't have that problem so much but i'm going crazy if i have to watch all the dumb advertising on the US networks, you guys pay much more then just the cable cost. Every 5 minutes there's a commercial brake and the endless repeating of the facts after it. I am willing to pay not to have these annoyances.
emotion
Sep 24, 03:52 AM
If Apple does force the thing to need a computer, I think they need to come out with an 'iTunes server' box that can fufill the same role, and it has to be cheap.
Mac Mini? I suspect that's exactly what Apple wants to drive sales of.
I know, they need to be cheaper.
Mac Mini? I suspect that's exactly what Apple wants to drive sales of.
I know, they need to be cheaper.
mgworek
Sep 12, 04:27 PM
wireless is useless for watching movies. I use my mac now to get videos from NAS servers and wireless doesn't cut it. I need to be going 100 or else it gets choppy. Unless they release a new wireless access point.
Rt&Dzine
Apr 22, 09:37 PM
The reason I'm agnostic is because there is no evidence of God(s), but I'm open to the possibility. As of yet, no one has made a good case. It always comes down to the leap of faith. And the only reason to take the leap of faith is because that person needs to believe in a god for some reason.
ddtlm
Oct 12, 06:40 PM
The result for my OSX 10.2 DP 800 G4 on the floating test is 85.56 seconds. I used -O and -funroll-loops as flags.
So this is about 45% the speed of my P3-Xeon 700. Not very good at all, but it falls within the ream of believeability.
So this is about 45% the speed of my P3-Xeon 700. Not very good at all, but it falls within the ream of believeability.
Rt&Dzine
Mar 27, 07:44 PM
According to you and your internet sources, sexuality can be readily changed by the individual right? So why don't you try changing yours? You don't actually have to have sex with anyone, just will yourself to be attracted to someone of the same sex.
Nicolosi says that if a father and son have a normal relationship, that child will not be gay. But according to Nicolosi sexuality can be changed, so then he could become gay. So it's contradictory.
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/04/dr-nicolosi-getting-in-touch-with-his-inner-spoiled-child/
Nicolosi says that if a father and son have a normal relationship, that child will not be gay. But according to Nicolosi sexuality can be changed, so then he could become gay. So it's contradictory.
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/04/dr-nicolosi-getting-in-touch-with-his-inner-spoiled-child/
Multimedia
Sep 26, 12:39 PM
Hey here's a question: what comes after Clovertown? The roadmap is kinda confusing after that from what I've seen. When can we reasonably expect Clovertown's successor, and what will it consist of?
I know there's a new architecture 2 years down the line, a die shrink, some multicore chips that won't be used in a Mac Pro... but can we expect any kind of real upgrade in past Clovertown, beyond mere speed bumps, or will this basically be it until '08?Tigerton is after Clovertown. It's 4 cores in a one dye package instead of 4 cores in two dyes in one package. But I'm not gonna wait for Tigerrton which I believe is scheduled for production in Spring 2007. Dual Clovertown is my next Mac for sure.
I know there's a new architecture 2 years down the line, a die shrink, some multicore chips that won't be used in a Mac Pro... but can we expect any kind of real upgrade in past Clovertown, beyond mere speed bumps, or will this basically be it until '08?Tigerton is after Clovertown. It's 4 cores in a one dye package instead of 4 cores in two dyes in one package. But I'm not gonna wait for Tigerrton which I believe is scheduled for production in Spring 2007. Dual Clovertown is my next Mac for sure.
IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 8, 08:25 AM
After suffering for 2 years I ditched and went with the HTC Incredible on Verizon.
Is the battery life as bad as I've heard? I think I prefer the Incredible to the Droid X (mainly because of size), but I hate not being able to make it through the day without charging my phone.
Is the battery life as bad as I've heard? I think I prefer the Incredible to the Droid X (mainly because of size), but I hate not being able to make it through the day without charging my phone.
eric_n_dfw
Mar 20, 05:34 PM
The trouble with DRM is that it often affects the average Joe consumer more than it hurts those it's intended to stop.Yep. This is true of many laws.
DRM embedded in iTunes annoy Joe Public who burned a track onto his wedding video and now can't distribute it to the wedding guests without working out an authorise/deauthorise schedule.Actually, they get even crazier when you start making derivative works like that. I do video as a hobby and have to be very careful if someone asks me to put a commercial track on the wedding video I'm editting. Technically, I cannot do it without a syncronization license plus royalty payment agreements for each copy sold. Just try to pin down a videographer on the legality of this - it's a HUGE grey area in the fair use clause. Some artists and/or labels (so I've read) won't even let you do it if you are willing to pay for said licenses because they don't want their "art" mixed with someone elses (the video).
The record companies assume everyone is out to be a criminal while the 'criminals' don't bother buying DRMed files or strip out protection and do what they want so just as many files end up on P2P networks and on dodgy CDs on street corners.Welcome to humanity, were the one jerk always screws it up for the rest of us. :mad:
DRM embedded in iTunes annoy Joe Public who burned a track onto his wedding video and now can't distribute it to the wedding guests without working out an authorise/deauthorise schedule.Actually, they get even crazier when you start making derivative works like that. I do video as a hobby and have to be very careful if someone asks me to put a commercial track on the wedding video I'm editting. Technically, I cannot do it without a syncronization license plus royalty payment agreements for each copy sold. Just try to pin down a videographer on the legality of this - it's a HUGE grey area in the fair use clause. Some artists and/or labels (so I've read) won't even let you do it if you are willing to pay for said licenses because they don't want their "art" mixed with someone elses (the video).
The record companies assume everyone is out to be a criminal while the 'criminals' don't bother buying DRMed files or strip out protection and do what they want so just as many files end up on P2P networks and on dodgy CDs on street corners.Welcome to humanity, were the one jerk always screws it up for the rest of us. :mad:
AppliedVisual
Oct 12, 03:43 PM
Wow I didn't even know such an accessory existed:
Gefen 4x1 DVI DL Switcher (Parallel Control) $899 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3499)
But the price is almost that of another screen! Holy Moly. You have a better place to buy it for less with link please?
Unfortunately, I don't. :( You should try www.copperbox.com or www.ramelectronics.net - they may be able to quote you a better price, but I don't know how much better.
So you gonna go with the ATI Dual Dual Link DVI Card on your Mac Pro? What card do you have in your Quad. I bought mine refurb and Apple doesn't sell a Dual Dual Link video card for it for post-purchase upgrade that I know of. Do you? Could just buy another cheap NVIDEA GeForce 6600 card that is missing the noisy fan. Don't do 3-D or games.
I have the nVidia 7800GT card in both my G5 quads. It and the Quadro FX4000 were Apple's first offerings with 2xdual-link ports that I'm aware of. They went to the ATI X1900XT with the Mac Pro and replaced the the FX4000 with the FX4500 sometime last spring. Anyway, I think all the G5 quads are PCI-E x16 capable so you should be able to drop in any Mac EFI compliant PCI-E video card that has the dual-link connectors, but I'm not positive on this. The x1900xt sops up an adjacent card slot, which isn't an issue on the Mac Pro, but could cause problems on a G5 depending on what you may have installed. But I'm willing to bet that the current 7300GT card for $149 (1x dual-link, 1x single-link) will work just fine. I'm sure someone knows for sure.
And yeah, I will buy the Mac pro with the x1900xt unless something better comes along before I click the buy button.
Gefen 4x1 DVI DL Switcher (Parallel Control) $899 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3499)
But the price is almost that of another screen! Holy Moly. You have a better place to buy it for less with link please?
Unfortunately, I don't. :( You should try www.copperbox.com or www.ramelectronics.net - they may be able to quote you a better price, but I don't know how much better.
So you gonna go with the ATI Dual Dual Link DVI Card on your Mac Pro? What card do you have in your Quad. I bought mine refurb and Apple doesn't sell a Dual Dual Link video card for it for post-purchase upgrade that I know of. Do you? Could just buy another cheap NVIDEA GeForce 6600 card that is missing the noisy fan. Don't do 3-D or games.
I have the nVidia 7800GT card in both my G5 quads. It and the Quadro FX4000 were Apple's first offerings with 2xdual-link ports that I'm aware of. They went to the ATI X1900XT with the Mac Pro and replaced the the FX4000 with the FX4500 sometime last spring. Anyway, I think all the G5 quads are PCI-E x16 capable so you should be able to drop in any Mac EFI compliant PCI-E video card that has the dual-link connectors, but I'm not positive on this. The x1900xt sops up an adjacent card slot, which isn't an issue on the Mac Pro, but could cause problems on a G5 depending on what you may have installed. But I'm willing to bet that the current 7300GT card for $149 (1x dual-link, 1x single-link) will work just fine. I'm sure someone knows for sure.
And yeah, I will buy the Mac pro with the x1900xt unless something better comes along before I click the buy button.
jimbobb24
Apr 9, 07:51 PM
Real games aren't played on an iDevice. Say what you want, it's true at the moment. No need to look into the future..........cause you don't know what it holds. And if you do tell me if i'll be at work Monday please! (Gov worker)
"real games"? What does that mean?
Don't you guys get paid whether or not it all gets shut down? Its crazy - why didn't Obama make a budget last year when they had the House and Senate? All very weird/incompetent.
"real games"? What does that mean?
Don't you guys get paid whether or not it all gets shut down? Its crazy - why didn't Obama make a budget last year when they had the House and Senate? All very weird/incompetent.
CaoCao
Mar 24, 11:01 PM
Perhaps I missed something but these all appear to be acts of violence against homosexuals. Don't get me wrong, they are horrible acts but I believe that CaoCao specifically stated acts motivated by mainstream Catholicism.
exactly, subtract the gangs, the mentally unstable, the non-Catholics and the inconclusively because the victim was homosexual and see where we are
exactly, subtract the gangs, the mentally unstable, the non-Catholics and the inconclusively because the victim was homosexual and see where we are
puma1552
Mar 12, 06:03 AM
Good. Perhaps we can depend on being kept up to date. The media does it's job, but is a loose cannon.
The problem for the west with a situation like this (or conversely the east when something happens in the west), is that the news in the other hemisphere is bound to be delayed, and at the mercy of translation; it goes with the territory.
I don't want to start a pissing match with anyone, because I think all of us want the same thing, and fear the same thing.
All I'm advocating is waiting on reliable information as things develop, and not to jump to any wild conclusions. If anyone's got vested interest in worrying, it's us here in Japan.
The problem for the west with a situation like this (or conversely the east when something happens in the west), is that the news in the other hemisphere is bound to be delayed, and at the mercy of translation; it goes with the territory.
I don't want to start a pissing match with anyone, because I think all of us want the same thing, and fear the same thing.
All I'm advocating is waiting on reliable information as things develop, and not to jump to any wild conclusions. If anyone's got vested interest in worrying, it's us here in Japan.
floatingspirit
Apr 12, 11:16 AM
My only dislike of OS X: You can't cycle between windows that are open with command+tab, you can only cycle between applications. In windows, you can cycle between the open windows with alt+tab.
May not be exactly what you want, but you can also cycle through open windows of the same app using command+~
May not be exactly what you want, but you can also cycle through open windows of the same app using command+~
appleguy123
Mar 24, 06:56 PM
The Catholic Church doesn't hate homosexuals
"People are being attacked for taking positions that do not support sexual behaviour between people of the same sex," he told the current session of the Human Rights Council....
"These attacks are violations of fundamental human rights and cannot be justified under any circumstances," Tomasi said."
Is this not exactly what the Catholic Church has done to homosexuals? Do they not have "Fundamental human rights"?
Sounds like hate to me.
"People are being attacked for taking positions that do not support sexual behaviour between people of the same sex," he told the current session of the Human Rights Council....
"These attacks are violations of fundamental human rights and cannot be justified under any circumstances," Tomasi said."
Is this not exactly what the Catholic Church has done to homosexuals? Do they not have "Fundamental human rights"?
Sounds like hate to me.
Rodimus Prime
Apr 15, 09:42 AM
Perhaps those groups should make their own videos.
And it would never be pick up by the media. Like I said the media does not pay any attention to it and with out the media doing anything those groups can never get traction.
LGBT group yes are targeted the others it is hit or miss if the person is targeted. LGBT is going to be pick on pretty much no matter what. Fat kid may or may not be pick on. I have learned that humans are nothing more than things like chickens. That is if you put a chicken in a group with an injured leg the others will peck it to death. At first the injury might not of been a big deal but over time the extra damage adds up and kill it and the more it gets pecked at the worse it gets. All because it is different.
And it would never be pick up by the media. Like I said the media does not pay any attention to it and with out the media doing anything those groups can never get traction.
LGBT group yes are targeted the others it is hit or miss if the person is targeted. LGBT is going to be pick on pretty much no matter what. Fat kid may or may not be pick on. I have learned that humans are nothing more than things like chickens. That is if you put a chicken in a group with an injured leg the others will peck it to death. At first the injury might not of been a big deal but over time the extra damage adds up and kill it and the more it gets pecked at the worse it gets. All because it is different.
ct2k7
Apr 24, 03:06 PM
I have never been to a Muslim country, but I am sure the results are amplified outside of North America ... I have worked with many Muslims here in Canada ... I have never met even one that was not completely controlling over their spouse or daughters.
Were they of Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin by any chance? It seems in their culture to be possessive of their women.
20 years ago I had never heard of a Father murdering their Daughter because she was dressing "too western"
Thanks EdifyingG ... I was not going to look up all that ... pretty much sums things up
CULTURE. Nothing to do with Islam!!!!!!!! Family of Pakistani origin.
Rebuttal provided.
Were they of Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin by any chance? It seems in their culture to be possessive of their women.
20 years ago I had never heard of a Father murdering their Daughter because she was dressing "too western"
Thanks EdifyingG ... I was not going to look up all that ... pretty much sums things up
CULTURE. Nothing to do with Islam!!!!!!!! Family of Pakistani origin.
Rebuttal provided.
torbjoern
Apr 23, 11:27 PM
Spoken like a true empiricist.
Oh yes. A true empiricist I am, indeed. I will never follow any doctrine, faith or political ideology blindly just because a book tells me to do so, not even when it refers to itself (and particularly not then). Hey - I even had a schoolmate who tried to get me into believing that The Protocols of the Elderly of Zion was authentic, "proving" its authenticity by referencing the book itself. Of course I'm an empiricist - it would be madness to found my life on anything else, be it ever so sacred.
Asking how God existed prior to the known universe is meaningless in terms of invalidating any religion.
Asking how the universe existed prior to us has been quite meaningful for believers to invalidate the absence of religion. "The universe can't have always existed!" Yes, it can. If it's possible for God to have "always existed", then it's certainly possible for the universe. The universe is less advanced than its creator if there ever were one, so that should be even easier to accept.
Simple example: I make some robots. I put them into a world (let's say I put them in a room with no visible or perceptible interior doors/windows/etc). They interact and are reasonably self aware. Their entire world is this room. Gravity is "obvious" to them. Suddenly, I rotate the entire room 90 degrees. They would have a situation where the statement "no spiritual entity.. stand[s] above these laws."
What is your point? You would still not stand above the law of gravity and neither would your robots, which is why your robots would fall "down" and have to stand up again when you turned the room 90 degrees.
Oh yes. A true empiricist I am, indeed. I will never follow any doctrine, faith or political ideology blindly just because a book tells me to do so, not even when it refers to itself (and particularly not then). Hey - I even had a schoolmate who tried to get me into believing that The Protocols of the Elderly of Zion was authentic, "proving" its authenticity by referencing the book itself. Of course I'm an empiricist - it would be madness to found my life on anything else, be it ever so sacred.
Asking how God existed prior to the known universe is meaningless in terms of invalidating any religion.
Asking how the universe existed prior to us has been quite meaningful for believers to invalidate the absence of religion. "The universe can't have always existed!" Yes, it can. If it's possible for God to have "always existed", then it's certainly possible for the universe. The universe is less advanced than its creator if there ever were one, so that should be even easier to accept.
Simple example: I make some robots. I put them into a world (let's say I put them in a room with no visible or perceptible interior doors/windows/etc). They interact and are reasonably self aware. Their entire world is this room. Gravity is "obvious" to them. Suddenly, I rotate the entire room 90 degrees. They would have a situation where the statement "no spiritual entity.. stand[s] above these laws."
What is your point? You would still not stand above the law of gravity and neither would your robots, which is why your robots would fall "down" and have to stand up again when you turned the room 90 degrees.
